Friday, January 19, 2007



(photo from the Scotland on Sunday website by Bill Hendry)

If you click on the title above you will see the article in the Scotland on Sunday regarding the debate taking place this evening on Independence. As you have no doubt guessed the debate features Wendy Alexander MSP and wee Nicky Sturgeon list MSP. I have no dubt in my mind who will win the debate (Wendy of course) as the Nationalist case for Independecne is so weak that it is based on Elaine C Smith's idea that River City is better than Panorama!

The debate on the Union -as covered here during the week- for Newsnight Scotland was an interesting and excellent debate, it showed up the case for Independence for what it actually is, a fight for power for the sake of it by narrow minded and power hungry politicians such as Ms Sturgeon, god only knows how many elections she has stood for under FPTP (First Past The Post).

I intend to 'interview' our local MSP's next week regarding the re-election campaign and the case for staying in the Union so stay tuned for more information.


Mark McDonald said...

So, what did you think of the result then?

I'd throw out the crystal ball if I were you.

Rayleen Kelly said...

You must be quite new to this senario Mr McDonald if you think that this is a REAL result for the SNP! It is actually laughable! Do you think that the people who applied to go to the debate were actually there to be persuaded? The great majority of people who attend these types of debates have

1. Already made up their minds

2. Are members of political parties and are their to support their candidate.

And before you start the SNP have ALWAYS been great believers in packing meetings to make it as though the majority of people agree with them, it hasn't been reflected in the election results, which should tell you something!

Although I have no doubt you will come back with some explanation of how the Scotland on Sunday wouldn't allow that to happen?

Mark McDonald said...

So if you knew that was the case, why did you so confidently predict Wendy would win?

Anonymous said...

So when you said "I have no dubt [sic] in my mind who will win the debate (Wendy of course)" you believed "it is actually laughable"?

"...the Nationalist case for Independecne is so weak that it is based on Elaine C Smith's idea that River City is better than Panorama!"

Does she? What's your source for that?

And it is a generally accepted view in the Labour party that the actors in River City are not very good?

Do they know this?

"And before you start the SNP have ALWAYS been great believers in packing meetings to make it as though the majority of people agree with them"

ALWAYS? How do you know this for a fact? What stopped the Labour party from getting their members to go?

Rayleen Kelly said...

Oh dear I seem to have upset the Nationalist contingent of Blog land!

Lets take them one by one...

Mark: I predicted Wendy to win because she did win, the argument that is, starting from the position that most of the audience were Nationalists of some persuasion (the SSP and Solidarity (formerly SSP) are equally guilty of packing meetings) the result of the audience was not going to change I have no doubt though that with the Scottish public our argumemt will win out.

Finn: Oh dear where to start!! Taking my comments out of context does your case NO good! My source for Ms Smith's comments was the debate on Independence on Newsnight (I take it you didn't see it).

For your information I know and have worked with quite a few of the actors involved in River City and they are not all bad (Although some are shocking!) The end product is the problem, I am not sure whether it is the writing, the acting or the production staff but something is definately lacking. Other Scottish programmes such as Still Game do not sufer from the same problem.

As for the SNP packing meetings my evidence for this is first hand, locally and nationally!! Maybe you have never seen the national political programmes, when the audience overwhelmingly cheer at Sturgeon and Kane despite their points being vapid and nonsense, as evidenced through their showing at the polls (ie neither Ms Sturgeon or Ms Kane have won a directly elected position yet, despite Ms Sturgeon's constant attempts to win Govan).

As for the final point, Labour Party members have better things to do of a Friday night than attend such a blatantly stacked meeting, we prefer to spend it serving the constituents that elect us!

Those Labour members interested attended, but Wendy - unlike Nicky - does not need any support I have seen the two debate in the past and Wendy wiped the floor with her, I have no reason to believe it would be different this time!

Mark McDonald said...


I have been heavily involved in university and schools debating.

It is generally agreed that when you win the argument, it tends to mean you have carried the audience and therefore win the vote. Maybe the Labour party operate differently in such a regard.

I wonder why you feel the need to resort to "Wee Nicky" jibes as well though.

Given the diminutive stature of Ms Alexander, it seems rather odd.

Then again, Labour doesn't do negative campaigning, does it?

I fully expect you to announce in the near future that you are "closing" the discussion.

That's usually the way people like yourself admit defeat.

Rayleen Kelly said...

Oh dear Mark, you really are a worry! I too have been involved in University and School debating, I am also currently involved in debating in the Council Chambers of a Local Authority.

The Wee Nicky comment is supposed to be funny, it is Ironic given that Wendy is quite small as well! All humour is subjective I found it funny and that is really all that matters!

The wider debate is the one that Wendy and the Labour Party will win and is winning.

I take your point on winning the debate that normally it is the audience vote that would determine who 'won' however, I don't think that this applies in this case given that I believe the SNP/SSP/Solidarity 'packed' the meeting, read my previous comment for a further explanation of this, although if you didn't understand it the first time I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

As for the 'people like you' comment maybe you could advise exactly what you mean by this comment, given that all you know about me is what is written on these pages?

On closing the discussion, it is up to me how long I let this go on, not happy don't participate, if it goes on too long I will close it. Hope that clears this up for you.

Rayleen Kelly said...

OK I have been accused of being a little paranoid about the SNP packing meetings here is proof!

An independence website forum has the following post ....

Question Time next week
Author: Robin Day
Date: 16-02-07 21:33

Alex Salmond is appearing on Question Time Next Thursday evening (22nd) in Edinburgh. With the election looming it is especially important we can get a favourable audience.

Below is the number and url to call to apply for tickets.

Question Time Ticket No: 01299 829 003


Still think I am paranoid?


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